and CIA - sponsored regime changes , and through the drug wars . ... If people want to fix the immigration problem , the answer is , ' Stop causing it . ' "
You tell me . Clarke : Well , I think Turkey is very important to the stability of the region and I think we have to be very hands on in our relationship with Turkey . We have as a national policy under law that we do n’t support military coupsconflict.attack.selfdirectedbattleagainst democratic governments . I think that ’s a good basic law , so we had to oppose that coups . But my sympathy personally is not with President Erdoğan because I think he has been doing his own version of a slow - rolling coups taking what was a secular state where there was constitutional separation between mosque and state , as we have separation between church and state , and he ’s been eroding that over the course of the last five to seven years .
Clarke : Yeah . I think John Kerry has this right . I think perhaps secretly he wished the coupsconflict.attack.selfdirectedbattlehad succeeded , but he ’ll never say that . And in fact , if the coups had succeeded , it would have just created another host of problems for us . There ’s really no place in a modern Turkey for military coups anymore .
I think John Kerry has this right . I think perhaps secretly he wished the coups had succeeded , but he ’ll never say that . And in fact , if the coupsconflict.attack.selfdirectedbattlehad succeeded , it would have just created another host of problems for us . There ’s really no place in a modern Turkey for military coups anymore . We can only hope that enough of the democracy in Turkey will be preserved so that this guy can be voted out at some point .
Clarke : Well , it ’s very easy to lose your temper in these national security crises . It ’s very easy to issue an instruction which later you regret . We had the Turkish coupsconflict.attack.naover the weekend and that led me to go back and look at the biography of Kemal Atatürk , the man who founded modern Turkey . He had a policy that no order that he gave after 8:00 at night was to be obeyed [ laugh ] unless he reestablished it in the morning . You know , I think temperament is very important .
Clarke : Yeah . I think John Kerry has this right . I think perhaps secretly he wished the coupsconflict.attack.nahad succeeded , but he ’ll never say that . And in fact , if the coups had succeeded , it would have just created another host of problems for us . There ’s really no place in a modern Turkey for military coups anymore .